Curse

max gladius · Jul 17, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Just want to make sure I have this right...you are yelling at people, at 2:10pm, because they haven't read the first post, that you last edited at 2:08pm?
OK, gotcha.
Anyway, you started a conversation, and conversations evolve. It's not really your place to tell people how they can and can't steer the conversation. Sorry.
Carry on.

If you notice, it was updated at 2:08, and that post was made at 2:10... think i might have edited it some??? that is why i wanted people to make sure they read it... there r alot of ppl ranting at nothing and they need to just chill....

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

The rune only absorps dmg from physical attacks which can be completely bypassed which means it does nothing. Wouldn't be different if they did remove it from the game at this point.

I'm not a rich kid and I have a warrior fully decked out for pvp. Did I ebay gold? No. Did I farm? No. I got my money by running elona, forge, and trading. I also used the materials market to make most of my money. Buy when its low then predict what materials are going to be used. Also bought 500 ecto at 4k each when people dumped them right before factions. Then resold them all for 8k each. Making money is easy.

Warriors deserve the -dmg mod because they take the brunt of the dmg, are on the front lines AT ALL TIMES, and overextend past healing range of the monks to take down backline targets.

No other classes have better armor than a war does. That's why this change is so dumb.

Warriors are not attacked in pvp so it makes no difference. If all the other classes now have better armor than the poor warrior, then maybe you should make yourself a caster and try overextending, I am sure it will work wonder. And as far as I know, no where does it says that the warrior should be at the front line at all time, so if it doesn't work anymore you will just have to adapt(poor you). But from what I have seen so far, this will not be necessary.

Rent · Jul 17, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyan The Archer

Wouldn't you think it was wrong of Anet if they removed ALL gold?

Just mine, everyone's, or the entire concept of gold?

Either way, no, not really. This is their game, they can do with it as they like; if they change it in such a way that I no longer can find any enjoyment in it, then I will simply go find another game, rather than coming onto a message board and demanding that they change it back or else because I deserve it or it's supposed to be the way it was.

Cyan The Archer · Jul 17, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

All those people talking about realism - Imagine if Anet actually took realism into warriors... Your shield would not even work properly while attacking, and you would walk slower because of all your heavy equipment

twicky_kid · Jul 17, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Warriors are not attacked in pvp so it makes no difference. If all the other classes now have better armor than the poor warrior, then maybe you should make yourself a caster and try overextending, I am sure it will work wonder. And as far as I know, no where does it says that the warrior should be at the front line at all time, so if it doesn't work anymore you will just have to adapt(poor you). But from what I have seen so far, this will not be necessary.

Warriors are not attacked first because everyone knows with theire dmg reduction and a little support you couldn't kill them.

That tactic will change very fast since you can bypass a wars armor and dmg reduction completely just by using an elemental weapon.

What's a war going to do when he is not on the front lines. Wand a target to death. Maybe he should break out that bow that does so much dmg and goes so well with his skills. Wars are made for the front lines. Putting them on the front lines or overextending now will probly die just as fast as anything else.

Just as you said try putting a caster on the front lines or overextend. Wars are in the same boat now. If your going to post something don't counter your own argument. You might want to take a look at my avatar. Sure does look a war, huh?

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Warriors are not attacked first because everyone knows with theire dmg reduction and a little support you couldn't kill them.

That tactic will change very fast since you can bypass a wars armor and dmg reduction completely just by using an elemental weapon.

What's a war going to do when he is not on the front lines. Wand a target to death. Maybe he should break out that bow that does so much dmg and goes so well with his skills. Wars are made for the front lines. Putting them on the front lines or overextending now will probly die just as fast as anything else.

Just as you said try putting a caster on the front lines or overextend. Wars are in the same boat now. If your going to post something don't counter your own argument.

You cannot bypass the entire warrior armor with elemental weapon, this is just plain false and no matter how you try to slice it, in a normal situation the warrior still have the most AL(excluding maybe a ranger with druid armor, but that is strickly against elemental damage). There are other target more vulnerable then the warrior to choose from and the warrior still remains the hardess to kill. If you overextend too much and get your self killed you are the only one to blame, no matter which class you play.

You should try adapting before whining to no end.

Rukmedes · Jul 17, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

The change is not a nerf to warriors, but a buff to Elementalist. Elementalist need the buffs badly.

Stop all your whining. You're just mad that Anet is actually fixing something for once and not neglecting it like usual.

twicky_kid · Jul 17, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

You cannot bypass the entire warrior armor with elemental weapon, this is just plain false and no matter how you try to slice it, in a normal situation the warrior still have the most AL(excluding maybe a ranger with druid armor, but that is strickly against elemental damage). There are other target more vulnerable then the warrior to choose from and the warrior still remains the hardess to kill. If you overextend too much and get your self killed you are the only one to blame, no matter which class you play.

You should try adapting before whining to no end.

Sigh, let me show you.

Take the normal Wars armor set up for PvP. Glads chest, leggings, KD gloves, and boots of your choice. Now lets compare that to the armor options for other classes.

That's 80 AL vs elemental and other types of none armor ignoring dmg (chaos dmg from a wand is not armor ignoring). Since you can control what type of dmg you deal (elementals are the exception) you are NEVER going to hit a war with physical dmg because they get +20 AL which is a 1/4 reduction in dmg. Only thing war armor is good against now is physical dmg. Every class on the game can deal elemental dmg or armor ignoring. Now lets compare it to other armor set ups for the other classes.

Ranger
70 AL base
+10 stance
+30 elemental dmg
That's 80 AL base vs physical and 110 vs elemental

Again ranger is the same as war just reversed. You can control what type of dmg you deal so you are NEVER going to hit a ranger with elemental dmg exept elementals (they have no other choice of dmg).

Monk
60 AL base
+10 while enchanted
+15 while conditions (this is a global mod that was not "fixed")
+5 enchanted off-hand
Staff with Def head and wrapping +10 AL

So a monk can acheive 95 AL vs all types of dmg that are none armor ignoring. That's better than what a war can acheive with the norm pvp set up under the best circumstances. Even if you don't use the Def head and wrapping you end up with 75 AL which is only a 1/16 more dmg compared to 80 AL. Keeping up yet?

Elementalist
60 AL base
+10 while enchanted
+5 enchanted off-hand
+10 Staff head and wrapping

Again this is 80 AL vs all types of dmg. Since Ele's don't need the energy head or the enchanting wrapping this is not an uncommon choice. Beginning to see a trend here?

Assassin
70 AL base
+15 while attacking
+5 def daggers

Assassins are a little bit different since they can only def against physical dmg and only certain types of physical dmg. The +`15 while attacking is their best choice since you need that extra armor when you shadow step behind lines to kill a target. While attacking that's 90 AL vs all types of none armor ignoring dmg. While not attacking that's 75 AL as before is a 1/16 more dmg compared to 80 AL.

Necromancer
60 AL base, 70 (tormentors)
+15 MM armor (if using a MM)
+10 Def head and wrapping
+5 enchanted off-hand

Tormentors is still the best choice for necos. Smiters are running around but with the recent AoE nerf you will see less balth aura so no need to fear zealots its fire. With tormentors and Def staff that's 80 AL. If your in PvE you can acheive 95 AL.

Mesmer
60 AL base
+10 enchanted or stance
+10 Def staff
+5 Def enchanted off-hand

Oh look another 80 AL def vs all types of none armor ignoring dmg. Even at 75 its a 1/16 more dmg taken than at 80.

This is why I feel this update has stripped what a war really is. He is dependant on the dmg reduction to be able to run glads for the 5 energy. Now we have to give up that 5 energy to use dragons so we can get a 1/8 reduction of dmg from elemental dmg compared to the glads set.

Tell me what is balanced about having a monk have THE best overall armor on the game? Give the sheilds and rune back to -dmg vs all types and leave knights/ascalon the way it is. Sorry for all the people that have the 15k and FoW armor. We know that was understood as a bug but the shields and rune were working as intended.

twicky_kid · Jul 17, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rukmedes

The change is not a nerf to warriors, but a buff to Elementalist. Elementalist need the buffs badly.

Stop all your whining. You're just mad that Anet is actually fixing something for once and not neglecting it like usual.

Its not a buff to eles when EVERY class in the game can now deal more dmg to wars.

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Sigh, let me show you.

Take the normal Wars armor set up for PvP. Glads chest, leggings, KD gloves, and boots of your choice. Now lets compare that to the armor options for other classes.

That's 80 AL vs elemental and other types of none armor ignoring dmg (chaos dmg from a wand is not armor ignoring). Since you can control what type of dmg you deal (elementals are the exception) you are NEVER going to hit a war with physical dmg because they get +20 AL which is a 1/4 reduction in dmg. Only thing war armor is good against now is physical dmg. Every class on the game can deal elemental dmg or armor ignoring. Now lets compare it to other armor set ups for the other classes.

Ranger
70 AL base
+10 stance
+30 elemental dmg
That's 80 AL base vs physical and 110 vs elemental

Again ranger is the same as war just reversed. You can control what type of dmg you deal so you are NEVER going to hit a ranger with elemental dmg exept elementals (they have no other choice of dmg).

Monk
60 AL base
+10 while enchanted
+15 while conditions (this is a global mod that was not "fixed")
+5 enchanted off-hand
Staff with Def head and wrapping +10 AL

So a monk can acheive 95 AL vs all types of dmg that are none armor ignoring. That's better than what a war can acheive with the norm pvp set up under the best circumstances. Even if you don't use the Def head and wrapping you end up with 75 AL which is only a 1/16 more dmg compared to 80 AL. Keeping up yet?

Elementalist
60 AL base
+10 while enchanted
+5 enchanted off-hand
+10 Staff head and wrapping

Again this is 80 AL vs all types of dmg. Since Ele's don't need the energy head or the enchanting wrapping this is not an uncommon choice. Beginning to see a trend here?

Assassin
70 AL base
+15 while attacking
+5 def daggers

Assassins are a little bit different since they can only def against physical dmg and only certain types of physical dmg. The +`15 while attacking is their best choice since you need that extra armor when you shadow step behind lines to kill a target. While attacking that's 90 AL vs all types of none armor ignoring dmg. While not attacking that's 75 AL as before is a 1/16 reduction if you increase it to 80 AL.

Necromancer
60 AL base, 70 (tormentors)
+15 MM armor (if using a MM)
+10 Def head and wrapping
+5 enchanted off-hand

Tormentors is still the best choice for necos. Smiters are running around but with the recent AoE nerf you will see less balth aura so no need to fear zealots its fire. With tormentors and Def staff that's 80 AL. If your in PvE you can acheive 95 AL.

Mesmer
60 AL base
+10 enchanted or stance
+10 Def staff
+5 Def enchanted off-hand

Oh look another 80 AL def vs all types of none armor ignoring dmg. Even at 75 its a 1/16 more dmg taken than at 80.

This is why I feel this update has stripped what a war really is. He is dependant on the dmg reduction to be able to run glads for the 5 energy. Now we have to give up that 5 energy to use dragons so we can get a 1/8 reduction of dmg from elemental dmg compared to the glads set.

Tell me what is balanced about having a monk have THE best overall armor on the game? Give the sheilds and rune back to -dmg vs all types and leave knights/ascalon the way it is. Sorry for all the people that have the 15k and FoW armor. We know that was understood as a bug but the shields and rune were working as intended.

Yep and I can make a warrior with 121 AL Against everything if I wanted too. Just like I can make a monk with 95 AL but I would never use a staff with both mods dedicated to defense. You are comparing the other classes from a highest-possible-AL point of view but you completely ignore that a warrior can have much more. Also most of these additional AL bonus coming from the armors are conditional and you certainly can't always count on that all the time.

Parson Brown · Jul 17, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Yep and I can make a warrior with 121 AL Against everything if I wanted too. Just like I can make a monk with 95 AL but I would never use a staff with both mods dedicated to defense. You are comparing the other classes from a highest-possible-AL point of view but you completely ignore that a warrior can have much more. Also most of these additional AL bonus coming from the armors are conditional and you certainly can't always count on that all the time.

And he didn't factor in AL from a warrior's shield or weapon mod. Just used the base 80 AL.

(and monks can't carry foci and staffs)

Statistical manipulation: FTW

twicky_kid · Jul 17, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Yep and I can make a warrior with 121 AL Against everything if I wanted too. Just like I can make a monk with 95 AL but I would never use a staff with both mods dedicated to defense. You are comparing the other classes from a highest-possible-AL point of view but you completely ignore that a warrior can have much more. Also most of these additional AL bonus coming from the armors are conditional and you certainly can't always count on that all the time.

Boon prots are enchanted majority of the match. Unless they are stripped or use cop they are enchanted with something.

Thumpers and touchers stay in stances.

Mesmers all use some type of mantra in most builds allowing them to stay in a stance.

Assassins only need the armor when they shadow step to kill a target while attacking. Other than they are not under fire and not taking dmg so need for extra armor.

Ritualist usually always have 3 more spirits up or are enchanted.

Necros don't ned 5 energy due to SR. Only a tainted necro is going to need a enchant wrapping,

Even if you use 1 of the def mods on a staff or the +5 enchanted off hand at 75 AL you take 1/16 more dmg compared to 80. Most casters obtain 75 AL as a norm. Just because you don't use the +5 armor mods for staffs doesn't mean others don't.

These examples just show you how weak the wars def is now. Right now tactics have not changed much towards priority targets in PvP. Give it a week or two and you'll start seeing wars being killed first or 2nd. With a warrior dead there is less pressure on you and have to use less energy using those anti-war skills.

Best case that is PvP worthy is 90 AL vs everything for a war but you lose 5 energy obtaining that. Sentinel will not be used in PvP. 13 str just for armor just isn't worth it for 10 more def.

twicky_kid · Jul 17, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

And he didn't factor in AL from a warrior's shield or weapon mod. Just used the base 80 AL.

(and monks can't carry foci and staffs)

Statistical manipulation: FTW

Its options that the classes have for def mods not manipulation. Do your own math with the choices you make. Guess weapon switches don't exist either?

Common Sense: FTW

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Well what you think is worth it is all up to you, but I personally don't use any def mods and if you don't want sentinel then it is your own problem. The rules have changed, you'll have to get used to it. My point still stand, a warrior that wishes to can have more AL than everyone else.

max gladius · Jul 17, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

ahh... ya that 121 ur talking about... 100 being with 13 strength... now, since the nerfage, warriors need tactics alot more, so 13 strength isnt going to be easy...

Age · Jul 17, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

You cannot bypass the entire warrior armor with elemental weapon, this is just plain false and no matter how you try to slice it, in a normal situation the warrior still have the most AL(excluding maybe a ranger with druid armor, but that is strickly against elemental damage). There are other target more vulnerable then the warrior to choose from and the warrior still remains the hardess to kill. If you overextend too much and get your self killed you are the only one to blame, no matter which class you play.

You should try adapting before whining to no end.

Don't forget that other classes have skills that can defend agianst elemental damageThe Warrrior does not have any.

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Don't forget that other classes have skills that can defend agianst elemental damageThe Warrrior does not have any.

Thats why you can have a secondary profession.

Shendaar · Jul 17, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by max gladius

ahh... ya that 121 ur talking about... 100 being with 13 strength... now, since the nerfage, warriors need tactics alot more, so 13 strength isnt going to be easy...

Yep, just like you have to be enchanted and be suffering from a condition and have a dual def modded staff to obtain 95AL on a monk. That is much more conditional than 13 str.

But again, this purely a personal choice if you don't want to have 13str it is your own problem and you will have to live with it. I choose not to use any def mods on my monk's staff and I therefore live with it. Why shouldn't you?

art of war · Jul 17, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Don't forget that other classes have skills that can defend agianst elemental damageThe Warrrior does not have any.

lol you war can always switch to W/me and get all the mantras and ele resistance for your build,but i guess you didnt think of that oh well.....

TheMosesPHD · Jul 17, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Wah! I go on a short vacation and everything changed! At first the change seems crazy, but then I thought well: All my armors have the knight's boots sets which are now worthless, but the only other thing I would care to put on my feet would be glad's, and losing potentially 1 nrg doesn't seem to bother me that much, and also I can finally wear my 15k glads boots with pride again

They've been sittin around in my inventory rusting for too long.

It's true warriors are that much more screwed vs. elementalists, but in PvP ppl never seemed to bother warriors much anyways until the rest of the team was dead, though they might now since the warriors have that much more vulnerability, but then in PvE this might be a good thing. I personally have never really taken much dmg at all when I play warrior in PvE, because I do my best to play it right, I wouldn't mind taking a few more slaps in the face here and there. Also, the longstanding stereotype of the "wammo" might get little lesson in humility when they die a little faster.

I apologize for not reading all 24 pages of this thread before posting, and hope I didn't say things that have already been flamed to death :P That's just my 3 cents.